Bandit12 v CB1300 (+observations)

[Suzuki Al]

With the CB fresh in my mind and a B12 fresh in my garage here goes, being as objective as I can:

Price - New B12s are going for around £1750 - £2000 less than CB13s. Brand Spanker B12 at JTs in Swansea £4750 on the road.

Build quality - the CB looks much better made and seems more substantial.
The engine cases and castings are far superior to the B12.
Paint quality is about the same - fairly good.
B12 plastics are better.
B12's exhaust polishes up much better than the CB's.
CB's bits and pieces - foot rests, brake levers etc - are much classier items than the B12's.
CB's wheels are much nicer.

Engine Performance - In spite of having marginally less output, the B12 feels stronger and more revvy. It is also significantly smoother.

Gearbox - CB's was good. B12 is better.

Handling - About the same with the B12 maybe having the edge. Both are big heavy bikes and take a bit of throwing around, but they are stable and sure footed. The CB always felt a bit vague at the back - probably due to it's loose rear suspension units (all CBs have this feature).

Brakes - Both have strong brakes, but the CB has the edge.

Comfort - CB is more comfortable. B12 is comfy, but the CB is better.

Other - B12 is a much older design and it shows. The instruments are pretty basic but work fine. CB has ambient temperature, birthday reminders etc etc, but are prone to misting and going wrong.
B12 now has hazard warning lights - only one probem: they don't work with the ignition switched off.
B12 comes with a centre stand as standard. CB's is a £100 option.
CB13s are very heavy on tyres and the OE Dunlops are truly aweful. B12 comes with Macadams, which are nothing special but last well.

Longevity - If looked after B12s stand up well (I know this from experience) neglect them and it's another story. CBs deteriorate equally fast.

Overall - The CB is a much more stylish bike. On looks alone, it beats the B12 hands down. It looks more expensive, but look beyond the peripherals and the B12's more basic virtues are apparent.

If style is your thing, the CB is, in my view, the most desirable of the big UJM naked bikes and the B12 is the least.
If other qualities matter to you, then the B12 is still a player.

Against the following competition it also scores well, and that's before price come into the equation. In my opinion:
The GSX1400 is a hairdresser's posemobile - bad handling and flaccid performance - B12 is a better goer.
The XJR looks great, but the build quality is absolutely abysmal and it handles like a barge - B12 has always had the beating of this bike.
The ZRX is a stonking bike - simply superb - The B12 had the measure of the 1100, but the 1200 is better the the Bandit.
The Fazer 1000 is vastly over rated in my view, don't waste your money.
The Speed Triple is a brilliant oddball - Triumph's best bike which you buy with your heart.
MT-01 = Big Girl's Blouse.
Hornet 900 is a terrific bike which just lacks charisma.
The naked newbies from Aprilia, MV, KTM etc are, to varying degrees, just expensive styling exercises looking for poseurs to buy them. The donor bikes are all better.
BMW R850Rs and 1150Rs, just aren't at the races when compared to any of the above.
Ducatis? The only bikes I've ever seen to fry their own elecrics - nuff said.

[XTreme]

This is the dawning of a new age of lists! :lg:

And I think you've undervalued the XJR Alan. It's a superb bike and unlike Bandits, it holds it's price.

[Stuart Fordyce]

This is the dawning of a new age of lists! :lg:



Alan almost made it through there without an inaccurate generalisation. I'd say you buy a Triumph Speed Triple with your head, by many reports they seem to be rather well put together and not excessively heavy on juice. It also looks amazing!

Stuart

[catteeclan]

This is the dawning of a new age of lists! :lg:

And I think you've undervalued the XJR Alan. It's a superb bike and unlike Bandits, it holds it's price.

Got to aggree there Pete.
The xjrs I've seen around here have a finish better than my TDM.:(
I think my tdm is pretty good but let down by the paint wearing off the frame and weld splatter left on the exhausts on the under side.

[tsiklonaut]

I'd strongly recommend give a long testdrive to R1150R and R850R, especially the Rockster version and take it to fast (alpine) twistys. Altough it's on it's own class by look and technologys, but i'd still be certanly interested to hear feedback from 'naked' JAP users. Contact your local BMW dealer for testdrive.

http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/machine/models/r1150r_rockster/gallery_photos/2.jpg
http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/machine/models/r1150r_rockster/gallery_photos/0.jpg
http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/machine/models/r1150r_rockster/gallery_photos/3.jpg
http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/machine/models/r1150r_rockster/gallery_photos/6.jpg

The Triumph seems preeety good too, sadly i can't testdrive one around here...

I guess the SuperDuke isn't the same class to compare, it looks more super-motard rather than naked(?!)

From the japs and design'n'look my choice would be 14Suzi, but... i don't want any known'n'boring japs any more in my garage you know, nuff sayd :rolleyes:

[Cupid Stunt]

Hmmm

I wonder in what way the Aprilia Mille (the donor) is better than the Tuono

[Renegade]

The ZRX is a stonking bike - simply superb - The B12 had the measure of the 1100, but the 1200 is better than the Bandit.
The Fazer 1000 is vastly over rated in my view, don't waste your money.

I agree about the Fazer :lg: and I wouldn't like to ride one for any distance, it is one of the most uncomfortable naked bikes I have ever sat on :XTmotard:

[Suzuki Al]

Hmmm

I wonder in what way the Aprilia Mille (the donor) is better than the Tuono

They're pretty much identical engine and chassis wise. It's just a stripped down version of the Mille, without the fairing. As just a styling exercise it, in my opinion, lacks the Mille's integrity.

Stuart, I have a very high opinion of the Speed Triple. It's looks are iconic, which is why I said you buy it with your heart. Only the latest model has the performance to match the best of the other nakeds.

As I said at the top, in general, these "new" nakeds are styling exercises designed to appeal to poseurs. They may perform well, but they are a long way from the original concept of Big Muscle Bike genre, which stretches back to a time before Bonnies, Dominators and Tritons, through to BSA Rocket 3s to CB750 Fours to the Z1 and GS 1000, Laverda Jota, B12s, XJRs and Honda's Big One. The Speed Triple belongs in this genre, but I'm not so sure about these new ones like the Brutale etc.

Like I said, this is just my opinion.

[catteeclan]

http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/machine/models/r1150r_rockster/gallery_photos/0.jpg

Got to admit, this is very nice. If it gets down in the price range I could and would give it a test.

My friend with the Tuono says he prefered the Millie he had before it. Says it handled better.
Given the choice, I'd have the Tuono.
The finish is better than the Japs too.

[Stuart Fordyce]

They're pretty much identical engine and chassis wise. It's just a stripped down version of the Mille, without the fairing. As just a styling exercise it, in my opinion, lacks the Mille's integrity.

Stuart, I have a very high opinion of the Speed Triple. It's looks are iconic, which is why I said you buy it with your heart. Only the latest model has the performance to match the best of the other nakeds.



Like I said, this is just my opinion.

The Tuono has bar risers and cowhorns. However the Mille engine was never designed to be seen naked, and doesn't look great. If it had a flat fairing on the side it would look better. Owners report that the Tuono is comfortable and handles well. Perhaps the current, more revvy Mille isn't better than the Tuono, which uses the older engine which has more torque low down.

Alan, fair point, I don't know much about the older Speed Triples. The 955i versions, and the current one, look the business, and probably go like stink. I would love the chance to try.

[mrjemm]

At least the CB1300 and B12 look ok, but many nakeds are grim, as are many bikes, full stop.

That Bimmer is simply revolting. The 1150GS gets away with the looks it has, but otherwise, most BMs are foul.

And to think they are really an "identity" brand living off the perception they have in the public's mind's eye, it's incredible.

The Speed Triple is a good move as Triumph have been making monstrosities for ages, but this really looks right.

Obviously riding any of these would make a big difference, but don't even consider telling me that you don't care how a bike looks, we all do.

[Buckster]

You want a nice KTM you do.

[mrjemm]

You want a nice KTM you do.

In fact a nice 400cc KTM... :ys:

[BawdyMonk]

Interesting thread, I regularly ride with an XJR1300, on well surfaced twisties it can really shift, on bad surfaces it's a bit of a liability, on hairpins in the mountains it struggles a bit, but has enough torque to keep up.

I've only had one short go on a GSX1400, I must admit I thought it was great, loads of grunt, and the original version with the Suzi white wheels looked very retro. although I didn't really push it it seemed to handle well enough for a big naked.

I believe the Rockster has the same lights as a GS, the shite ones, for this reason I'd never buy one. Assuming it handles like an ordinary R1150R it would probably piss on the other nakeds mentioned here on a blast through the mountains, the lack of dive makes handling superb.

I've never ridden a CB1300 but have tried the Honda X4, I don't know how much they've got in common....

http://www.bsmotoring.com/2002/02apr18_3.jpg

I'm not sure if you get them in UK, but they've been popular here for a while, mainly as grey imports, they just do not like corners!

The B12, handles pretty well, goes pretty well and..... doesn't rock my boat at all, like all of these bikes (bar the BMW) it's probably got 30bhp more than most of it's owners will ever need or use. Top speed is academic, as without a screen you can only do short blasts.:rolleyes:

I rode a Kawasaki Z1000 last year, I'm not sure of the power but there was plenty! IMHO it's probably the ultimate streetfighter but too umcomfortable for me.

What would I buy? Probably a Ducati S2/4 Monster, after all, a naked is about attitude and style, and you cant find either in a list!:XT Alan:

[tsiklonaut]

I believe the Rockster has the same lights as a GS, the shite ones, for this reason I'd never buy one. Assuming it handles like an ordinary R1150R it would probably piss on the other nakeds mentioned here on a blast through the mountains, the lack of dive makes handling superb.

What would I buy? Probably a Ducati S2/4 Monster, after all, a naked is about attitude and style, and you cant find either in a list!:XT Alan:

Yep, those lights seem to be the same, but maybe they use different wattage or halogens(?!) Some seem to complain about 1150 lights, i complain on my 1100 lights too, but it's just because i use polarizing visor on my helmet which means -20% light on night, so i use now Phillips H7 halogens +50% light, shows blue on the right side - more clear roadside and yellow on the left side - doesn't blind the one who's passing you on the other direction. Really recommend them on any bike, not expensive too! Got one for 6,50£

And youp, Duc Monster seems one of the most superb in nakeds for my tast too - well, you know, via irony, nakeds are mostly choosed via the look too - coz it's naked you know - everything is visible - the fitness of a body may be OK, BUT there's not much 'soul' to show on most bikes you know to get really marryed ;)

[Suzuki Al]

What would I buy? Probably a Ducati S2/4 Monster, after all, a naked is about attitude and style, and you cant find either in a list!:XT Alan:

I did, just about, mention Ducati :ljl: The Monsters do look very good and they do have charisma, but I've had 2 mates who have owned Ducatis in recent times, both using the SS motor. Both fried their electrics. They handle superbly, but for the rest..............:(

[BawdyMonk]

Yep, those lights seem to be the same, but maybe they use different wattage or halogens(?!) NO, the lights are just SHITE!
Some seem to complain about 1150 lights, i complain on my 1100 lights too, but it's just because i use polarizing visor on my helmet which means -20% light on night, so i use now Phillips H7 halogens +50% light, shows blue on the right side - more clear roadside and yellow on the left side - doesn't blind the one who's passing you on the other direction. Really recommend them on any bike, not expensive too! Got one for 6,50£


I'm not sure about using a visor that cuts the light in any way, I wear Ray-Bans all the time and take them off when it gets dark...not that I can see that much in the dark without my auxillary lights:(

I've heard about the Phillips bulbs, it seems the way to go as they don't generate more heat than the OEM bulbs. (I've read of a few reflectors being melted by riders using too high wattage bulbs)

A mate's going back to England for a couple of weeks so I'm going to ask him to get me the Phillips bulbs, do you happen to have the part numbers handy? It would probably save any cock ups if you do:rolleyes:

[brokenhal0]

you can rant on about your cb1300 and the bandit all you want but why limit yourself to the POOR uk spec models. the cb1300 is a waste of space and is severly flawed . as a point of information the cb1300 is a detuned x4 which was deleted in 2002 after an 8 year run , ooh just as we got a revamped z1100 look-alike with the left over units that they tried to sell us as the cb 1300 . like we are soooo nieve .popular in japan ,germany and cypres. the japaneese model of the x4 was restricted via a chip to 86 bhp as are all sports bikes in japan , but a £60 chip that goes in the head light ,returns it to full power at 163bhp. these things chew v-max's for breakfast and handle better . its still not bandit handling. top end is only 118mph but goes up to 138 when the chip is in place to gain the extra rev range . these bikes look sort of v-max ish . low muscle bikes distinctive by the visually large solid back wheel. comfortable over distance and very forgiving on the gears . happy in town plodding and in its eliment hooning round . the original back tyre is 190 /65/17 (nice for putting it down lol) section but now hard to find so most have low pro 180/55 makes it a bit of a screamer but you gain torque . some of the aftermarket tuning parts make huge differences but unfortunately need to be purchased in germany .
hope thats food for tought and more people that will tell honda that 108 at the wheel is a bloody joke .

[ogri]

alan,i'm guilty of throwing out generalisations myself,so i can't complain about you doing the same.however,being labelled a posuer is a little hard to take.i dont like race reps and wouldn't have one as a gift,but what if it was possible to buy a bike with the power,handling,brakes of a sports bike without the crippling riding position.lets see,hornet 9,not retuned i'm afraid,just detuned.fazer thou,again,detuned and expensive.z thou,wonderful to look at,handles,stops,but has to be thrashed to get a move on,a bored out zx9 and it has to be thrashed,fucking keep it mate.bandit 12,loved mine but its time to move on,no top heavy lumps,what does that leave me.oo,aprilia have removed the fairing from the mille,you know,a popular track bike that has a reputation for toughness(the engine)and fitted lovely yokes and bars.being a small company they've gone the cheap route and crudely covered up the fixtures and fittings instead of a redesign of the bike,but hey its a proper factory streetfighter that fits every criteria i was looking for in a bike.
i bought the bike in november and have put 2000 miles on it through one of our worst winters for years.i love the bloody thing and the icing on the cake alan,the little fairing allows me to cruise comfortably around 85-90 out of windblast which is good news for anyone like me that has tinitus.
i know your remarks were not meant as an attack on me,but alan,honestly,there are people out there who just buy a bike of their choosing and then just get on and enjoy the bloody thing.
regards,
ogri.

[ogri]

brokenhalo,we've just contributed to a thread thats been dead for a year,pair of plonkers mate.

[Bruce]

...i know your remarks were not meant as an attack on me,but alan,honestly,there are people out there who just buy a bike of their choosing and then just get on and enjoy the bloody thing.
regards,
ogri.


Oh my word:mut:

[ogri]

Oh my word:mut:


and? you fucking stalking me now.get out and ride you sad cunt.

[Bruce]

and? you fucking stalking me now.get out and ride you sad cunt.

No, perusing old Al posts for their inherent humour. But you stole the show once again. You're fuckin brilliant. Forget Marcel, I'm your number one fan:spoton:

[IIIrd]

just a quick question.....
i'm considering getting shot of me zzr1100 in favour of a bandit 1200, whats the b12 like in a big crosswind...the zzr1100 is a nightmare